MINUTES - Special Council - 19660526... _,~
~-
'
Minutes of Special CoJ.!.ncil Meeting
May 26th, 1966.
Ptesent • Mayor C.F. Davis (in the chair)
Re~ve S. G. Patrick ·
Deputy-Reeve R, Simmons
Councillors -Corbett -Davis -Illingworth -Trent -
Williamson -Jl\ u \\\\ 1\ Y
WILLIAMSON: "Resolved that 72 hour notice be waived
ILLINGWORTH: and that tl:).is meeting< of Council in
Committee of the Whole now become a
Council Meeting."
CARRIED.
Councillor Williamson said that Council had agreed some time ago
that all meetings with developers and sub-dividers would be held
in open Council.
Counc:Hlor Murray said that he respected and agreed with the
deci~ion of Council, but he disliked anything cut and dried.
Councillor Illingworth said that he had seconded the motion-at last
Council Meeting regarding this meeting, but he had not realized that
Council were agreeing in principle to the development. He would
eithe~ like the words "agree in principle" deleted, or he would
like to withdraw as seconder.
Councillor Davis said that he had stressed that his motion was. to
agree in principle. ·
May or Davis said that the minutes must stand.
Mr. Shankman presented a proposed plan for the development. He said
they are at present planning ol).. ·a closed mall type of centre similar
to Yorkdale. Newmarket and Richmond Hill are too close to compete
as an open plaza, but a c1os.ed mall would attract customers.
Mr. S~ankman said that the motion to agree in principle came as a_
shock to himt because he felt Council had agreed in principle some
months ago. He thought that when Amendment #7 was passed it was be-
cause Council wanted commercial development in this area. It in
"-.evidence of his good faith to give the Town commerl!ial assessment
before residential. In a project like this the engineering costS
alone $20,000 -$25tOOO, befor:e you can get an architects plan,
Mr, Shankman wants to get building permits for the foundations and
excavations, and then he will come back wi.th architects plans •
\
-2-:
Councillor Williamson said .. that Mr. Shankman. wanted permits based
on plans he had presented tonigbt, but these ar~ not· the plans
originally proposed,. ·For example these plans show no theatre.
Mr. Shankman said that these were not. necessarily the plans to which
he was going to build •. He wants the temporary permits for his own
·.protection -to get his foot. in the door. ·
Reeve Patrick said that Council was not giving Mr. Shankman a chance.
If he doesn't comply with the regulations, the Building Inspector can
stop him, ·
.Councillor Illingworth said that Mr. Shankman didn't present a plan
for a Shopping Centre until •. last Octo'Qer. Even. now we don 1 t know
what you ere going to • build! .. To~ night is· the first time you have · t
brought in any concrete plans, but then you say this may not be what
you are going to build. can you give us any idea of the value of the
centre, and will itbe as you previously stated;
Mayo;r• Davis said before we get into this question, has any
engineering plan beeinmade for getting the services into the shopping
centre,· ·
Mr. Sharlkmari said that they could tie into the Disposal Plant from
the Yonge Street frontage. They.wo\lld l:le prepal"ed to operate the.
COiih'ilercial deyelopment on a temporary septic tank, Answering
Councillor Illingworth, it is. difficult to tell what the value will
be·until we kriow when we can bui];d~ 1:Ja$ed oh preseht values, the
value would be $800,000 -$900,000, plus $~00,000 for land.
<'tlo.uncillor Murray said that he doesn't think that the cost· has any-. tl!ff'ng to do \\lith it. The Shopping Centre is a commercial enterpril)e,
, ari'd we need commercial assessment. · · · .
D~~'tt"-Reeve .Sim,,lOns said that Council was beating a dead horse.
Wt hi!i.d decided. what we wanted to do, .and now we are going over ,it
again. Sur.e we want commercial a:;is·.essm'ent, but we are stytilied iby
OMB and O'WRC.
Councillor
but are we
go ahead?
permit it.
l'l!urray aaid we are stymied .on entering the se·,vage plant,
going to wait until the sewage plant is built and then
We know· they can 1 t get permits because the OVJRC won't
Councillor Williamson quoted the opinion of Solicitor MacPherson that
the foundation and excavation permit is tante,mound to issuing a
building permit and should be treated as such.
L.,. --~-~---· --· ····---~-----· .. -·--~~~~~~~~~-~~--·"'·".'"'··~--
'--~"""'
·3-
Councillor Illingworth said that he egreed that the question should
be settled one way or another. He.has no objection to shopping
centN;s per se. He said the commercial development should stand
on its own merits, and asked Mr1 Shankman if he would build the
shopping centre without any agreement of any kind on the residential
development.
Mr. Shankman said he did not believe this was a fair question because
Council was already on record that it would negotiate in good faith.
If the Town is going ahead with expanding the disposal plant, we
don •t want to wait until it is built to start. This is why we want
foundation permit, because then we can go.out and negotiate leases,
etc. We are investing good money in Aurora. We will get a return
on our investment, but the Town will benefit also by getting
assessment which does not deme.nd services .such as schools, etc.
Councillor Davis said that he was confused. It is no secret that he
is deeply in favour of a shopping centre, but ?IJJr. Shankman originally
came in with aproposal for a mall, then he said it must be an open
plaza, and now he says it is to be a ;rlElll again. If Mr. Shankman
can tell us exactly what he is going to build, I might be prepared
to support him, but I cannot until then.
Mr. IRhum of CBC said that·the first question asked when negotiating
leases with tenants is whether the land is zoned for a shopping
centre. If the developer cannot say he can get a permit, the
prospective tenant is in no hurry to decide how he wants his area
laid out.
Mayor Davis asked if even if the permits are granted, can you now
go out and say that the land is zoned for a shopping centre.
Mr. Shankman said that land zoning should be no problem, since this
is a first use. He said that he had seen the letter from the Dept.
of Municipal Affairs re Amendment No. 7 and their require.raents did
not appear onerous.
Mr. Shankman recalled that at his first meeting with Council he said
he was· aware of problem re the dispose.! plant, and he had said at
that time he was prepared to pay his proportional she.re of the cost
os expansion. ·
Counc.illor Trent said that in discussing the Centre, we hadn't yet
got down to what assessi11ent we,s to be derived. This was important
because the services would be a cost to the Town,
Mr. Shankman said that he would sign an agreement to pay the cost of
servicing. ·
-4-
Deputy-Reeve Simmons said that if the change in land use was obtained
the sewage problem would he easily overco<Ee if we allowed Mr. Shankman
to tie into the trunk on Laurentide Avenue, coming across his own
property. He said that the Shopping Centre would not cre<:lte as much
sewe.ge as Sunnybrook Subdivision,
Councillor :'iur){'ay seid that if Nlr. Shankman cec;,le across his own
property it would simply be a plumbing connection and would not require
O'lffiC approve.!.
Councillor Illingworth said that we must first
and there is no quarantee, it wi11 be rezoned.
have a shopping centre we i;JUSt do it right.
Mr. Shankman said the:t he would be prepe){'ed to
underte:king not to apply for a building permit
the land is properly rezoned,
get the land rezoned,
If ·;ve e.re going to
give the Town an
until such time as
Councillor Illingworth said that such an undertaking would not satisfy
him. He would think that if Council gave its approval in principle
this should be se,tisfactory to Mr. Shankman. He would re:ther the
Council give Mr. Shankman assurance that when the land is rezoned
permits will be issued.
Mr. Shankman said that Council had a~ready given its approval in
principle, but he we:nts to lock up his tenants now, and he cannot
do this without permits.
Cojlncillor Murrey o;e.id that !Vlr, Shankmall, owned a piece of property,
and H he wanted to put founde:tionl;l on it, Council couldn't stop him.
Councillor ''!!illi~mgJOn said that Council !tlad received an opinion from
its Solicitor, ·and as Chair10wn of. the Planning co~~~;;.,ittee he could
not honesqy sign the building p<qrmits.
Councillor Murray said th;;,t Counc:L!, was going to do one of two things
either we are going to wait until the larid is rezoned, or we are
going to grant the foundation perm:i,t.
MUfmAY:
CO?.B!STT:
"Resolved the,t Cpuncil grant the foundation permit
tonight. 11
Councillor ·cl'illiamson asked why ''We hav:e a Town Solicitor if we are
going to ignore his advice.
Mayor Davis stated that he agreed, ana that he felt so strongly that
there must be e: recorded vote, '
~-·~·-~~~·~~~~~·
~-~---
-5-
Councillor Illingworth said that he was glad the question had be~n
brought to a head. He cannot su:.oport the resolution, but he is glad
it had been brought to a head, ·
Reeve Patrick said that he could quite understand what this tvs,s a,U
about. We are ell sure the rezoning is going through. Mr._ Sl1i'l:tlkiJ1an
has to negotiate with tenants i He thinks the Mayor and a delegation
should go to the Department ahd get the amend,nent through~
Mr. Shankm~m said that he felt Council should know ~:~11 the facts,
He said h;o had been given to June 1 by a major tenant to let him kJQ.ow
if he was going ahead.
Deputy-Reeve Simmons said thiS only confir:ned whd he l:!..ad ssid. All
Mr. Shanlcnan is after is something concrete so he can negotiate with
tenants.
AM~NDMENT DAV!S: "Resolved :that per.e1its for
NO SE!CONDER: foundations be grant.ed and that
bllilding permits be granted
subject to aj)proval of whichever
legal authority has it re land
use."
Coundillor Murray said we should clarify this.. Mr.. Shankman is
willi:'ng to give a com;,;i h1ent not to apply for the permit. All Uir.
Shankman wants is a resolution to show his tenants. ·
Councillor Trent asked if it was necessary to have a foundation
permit. \\Thy not enter into an c,gree::.ent with L1r. Shankman.
.AMENDMENT TRENT:
WILLIAMSON:
"Re.solved that we enter into a
signe!ll agreement with i'JJr. Shankman
similar to a subdivision agreement,
stating out position and his
position."
Councillor Murray said that Councillor JLllingworth had indicated he
was not fussy on having any commitment from Mr. Sh&nkman.
Councillor Illingworth said that he would sup~;ort an '.agreement.
It would need be only a simple agreement .. stating that an e.pplication
would be considered e.s soon as the land is rezoned.
\..~---~------------~-
-6-
Mr. Shankman said an agreement is not satisfactory. Once the land
is rezoned, an agreement would be unnecessary. He doesn't want an
agreement, he wants the foundation per;.Ji ts.
, ___ _
Councillor Trent said that this put Mr. Shank<aan in a different light.
H!e could not support something he knew nothing about.
AMENDMENT TO
AMENDMENT
DIVIS:
PATRICK:
"Resolved that perndts for foundations
be granted and that building permits
be granted subject to the approval
of the Dept. of Municipal Affairs
of change in land use.
RECORDED VOTE ON JiJ:C::SNDf,JSNT TO AM'SNDNlENT
~ Mayor C.F. DAVIS
NAY -X
Reeve PATRICK X
D.eputy-Re.eve Slfffti:I.!ONS X
Councillor. CORBETT X
Councillor W. DAVIS X
Councillor ILLINGWORTH X
Councillor D.J. TrWRRJ,y X
Councillor \'J'l. TRENT X
Co.uncillor J, WILLift3;'1SON X
J:1tJENDl~,1ENT TO I3.JENDMENT DEFEAT!~D
· .. -~··
-7-
RECOT~DED VOTE ON AL:if2NDTf.!;NT
YEA NAY --
MAYOR C.F. )AVIS X
REEVE PA.TRICK X
DEPUTY -RE:~VE S :n .. fLl10NS X
COUNCILLOR CORBETT X
COUNCILLOR W. DAVIS X
COUNCILLOR ILLINGWORTH X
COUNCILLOR :J. J. IYlU&"'i.AY X
COUNCILLOH c!n'''• TRENT X
COUNCILLOR J. 'YILLIAMSJN X
Jii~~ENDJ>1ENT DEFEATED
Deputy-Reeve Si;m:wns asked if the words "and that buildings and permits
be subject to Council approval" Councillor '"1urray and Corbett as
mover and seconder agreed.
The resolution now reads:
MURRAY: "Resolved the..t Council grant the foundation
COHBETT: .. permits tonight, and that buildings and
perinits be subject to Council approval."
~·~·~····~.-~~~~-~-
.... .,
-8-
RECORDED VOTE ON HESCLUTION
YEA. --.--
MAYOR C.F, DP.VIS
RE~VE PATrtiCJK x
DEPUTY R.~8~~V~i: SIT;Il'r10NS x
COUNCILLOR CORBETT
COUNCILLOR W. .JAVIS
COUNCILLOR ILLINGVJOR'fH
COUNCILLOR D~J. fl.iURR!S
COUNCILLOR W~ TRENT
COUNCILLOR J. 'i'ILLH:.MSON
X
X
X
RE.SOLUTION CJ:-J~RIED
NAY
X
X
X
X
Councillor Illingworth said that as a ;;,e:aber of the peri,Ji t Cor.md ttee,
he will not sign the permit.
Councillor Murray said that tte majority rules, and Council had passed
it.
CO!a3ETT: "Resolved the ;;,eeting adjourn."
S Jt ~.,lfcl~(\ ~'" • , ... _,,..., l'l~o..~.
Ck't1lED.
The·meeting then adjourned.
,/
:{~~\
MAYOR
·-----